Interview: Apocalyptica Talks Shadowmaker, Crowdfunding, and Music School

By: Gwendolyn Lee – 

While not always the case, classically trained musicians like yourself will follow the classical path. What made you stop and transition into metal music instead of joining an orchestra?

Eicca Toppinen: A million coincidences in a row. When we started Apocalyptica, there was no plan to leave classical music. We were still studying and working as classical musicians, but then Apocalyptica began to take up more and more time, and suddenly there was not enough time to practise [classical music] regularly, you know, because rehearsing in touring conditions doesn’t work out because, yeah, it’s noisy and there is no privacy, and so, I decided to stop classical playing, almost, in general.

Mikko Sirén: I don’t think they ever stopped. It was just something on the side. They were all studying to do that, and I think that the change can be seen more dramatic than it was. Even when they did the first album or the second album, they were studying [classical music] still, and you need to when you play that instrument. It’s such a technical instrument and you need to keep that skill going on, and up to the Apocalyptica album which is 2005, Perrtu still had a place in Helsinki Philharmonics, which is one of the biggest symphony orchestras in Finland, so they didn’t really stop practicing or doing classical music for the last eight years there hasn’t been time for it, but the enthusiasm to do something else was very natural. They were musicians who could play one instrument, but they also liked different kind of music, so they wanted to express themselves with the instrument they could play.

Would you say that their heart lies with metal music, then?

Sirén: They also have the heart for classical music. But also to not restrict yourself to one kind of music, like me, as a drummer, I wouldn’t restrict to play only metal music- I love to play other stuff as well. It’s very common for musicians.

How is being a musician in Finland different from anywhere else in the world?

Toppinen: I really don’t know, because I haven’t lived anywhere but in Finland. Finland is very great to study music. Their education system is absolutely super. So to study there is great, because our we base our educational system on the fact that everybody has the possibility to graduate from university without extra payment, as the tax money covers it. No matter how poor a family you have, you have an equal chance to go as far as your skills take you.

What was the most precious lesson you learned attending the Sibelius Academy?

Toppinen: I don’t know. It’s hard to say, because we were studying all the time, and trying something new all the time. It was always about learning how to communicate with other musicians. I think that my personal talent is to communicate with other musicians. When I’m with classical music, I was really good with chamber music, but that was in my territory, with string quartets, quintets, and all combinations of chamber music, and it was natural to me as I was playing in a band. It’s not really about the skills you learn at Sibelius Academy, but more about your natural habit. You either have it or you don’t have it.

Shadowmaker is your first album with a full-time singer (Franky Perez). Why did you finally decide to bring on a full-time frontman instead of going with guest singers as you had on your previous albums?

Sirén: I think we all felt that that path with having travelling guest singers from other bands, well it’s been really fantastic and has brought us a lot, but we also felt that if we continued, it would have dulled our minds. Like repeating yourself, and we felt that we needed to develop and go further, and get new challenges, and to make Apocalyptica get somewhere.

Toppinen: It’s very complicated to make an album with many guests because there’s so many moving parts and schedules and company policies, etc. And after doing so many collaborations with touring orchestras, and doing the Wagner Reloaded project in Germany, we really felt that we wanted to focus on ourselves and we want to make everything controllable. We want to control what we do, and therefore the only way to do that, to make a real band record was to get a singer so we are not depending on anybody else.

So that would also make the band tighter and closer together.

Toppinen: Yeah, tighter, and it’s also effected the songwriting process and arranging the songs. The fact that all five of uswere able to be in the rehearsal room to hear the songs as live versions, that was the big change to previous albums, and also that we wanted to connect the touring and album versions. They have been very separate in a way. Of course, we have a touring singer with us, but still, he’s a different guy and he’s not singing with us on any of the records. It was working well, but it still seemed confusing for a lot of our fans and audience. The concept is also more clear now.

Some people blame us because they say [Apocalyptica] is more like a band because there are so many vocal tracks so it’s more like a regular band, but we still think it sounds very unique and different to other bands. But now it’s clearly a band, you know. Somebody counted that we have done 27 songs with vocals in our history, and that’s quite a few singers. 27 singers have recorded with us, so I think it was finally time to go with someone full time.

The story goes that you’d looked at a number of singers before choosing Perez. What were the qualities that made you choose Perez as the band’s frontman?

Toppinen: His versatile style of singing and his way of telling stories.

Sirén: He’s very good with rock singing. He’s powerful and has a great growl in his voice, but he is most fragile and expressive when he is tender and soft. There is some unique flavour in his voice, which I haven’t heard in anyone else’s voice, so it’s not like he is exactly like someone else, but he is exactly like Franky Perez.

Toppinen: He has a recognizable sound, personal sound. The fact that Apocalyptica’s music is a big mix of rawness and very hard stuff, combined with beautiful things and everything in between, so when we decided to start searching for a singer, it was a bit like “let’s see what we can find”, because in a way, we thought that the singer, well he would need to be equally as good as all the guests in the past, and to find such a singer who is free, you know, well usually good singers have their own bands, and Franky has his own thing, but he really wanted to get this gig so he was able to organize everything out of the way, so I think we were lucky.

Yeah, I saw you guys in LA- I’ve never seen Apocalyptica live before, and when I saw Franky come on stage, it seemed like he just brought so much energy to the stage.

Toppinen: It feels to us that instrumental Apocalyptica and Apocalyptica with vocals is very balanced. It feels very natural. It’s the most natural it’s been since the first show. And from the very first time with Franky, it’s been very natural to have him on stage. It’s good, it feels very good, and I hope the audience feels the same way.

How did Perez change/improve your creative process? What were you able to accomplish with Perez on board that you could not in the past?

Toppinen: I think in the past, the collaborations worked surprisingly well, and the results of many of the songs in the past are really good, considering the fact that we were not rehearsing with the singers together in the studio. So we did our thing, and the singers just sang their own parts, and then we would fine-tune our work based on the vocals, but I think having him now, we had the chance to try new things.

We turned two songs into vocal tracks, for example. We meant for them to be instrumentals, but we weren’t satisfied with the songs, but having Franky in the room was like “hey Franky, pick up the cello melody and sing it. Sing it with any lyric, just to get the feel of it.” For “Dead Man’s Eyes”, the very epic ending track- that’s originally two instrumental songs which both had really cool parts and not so cool parts.

Sirén: They would have been left out.

Toppinen: They would have been left out from the album the way they were, but then Perttu combined a version, and then we arranged it over and over, and we were like, “Franky, sing it”, and we were like “this is the way it should be!”, so this is just one example of how many things changed completely during rehearsals because we have a singer.

Sirén: Yes, it’s very different. And also for live situations- as the tour continues, the versions tend to change and he also gives his input into new ideas of how the song could be better live.

Toppinen: He’s very experienced. He’s worked with tons of different bands and he’s been writing a lot of music by himself, so we want to give him space to bring his experimenting, his professionalism and musicality into the group.

The break between Shadowmaker and 7th Symphony is longer than any other you’ve taken between albums (five years). Why did you take such a long break this time? How was your creative process different after such a long time off?

Toppinen: There are many reasons. We were searching for the chance to have a break for a long time. We’ve been doing this continuously since 1996 with basically no breaks. We were always in some process, you know, songwriting, pre-production, studio-

Sirén: -tour.

Toppinen: And we wanted to refresh things and distance ourselves from the whole thing. We had the greatest time on tour and it felt really good, but let’s take some distance, and let’s get separated from the record company, and let’s get separated from all that pressure that comes with making a record, and then come together later and say “do we want to make another album?” You know, like what’s the feeling? Everybody was like “yes!”

Sirén: And we did a lot in those five years. We actually released one live album during that time. Wagner Reloaded, and it was over one hour of new Apocalyptica music in that, even though it’s very different to Apocalyptica music as it’s from a classical perspective and it’s very progressive with all the instrumental music. But it also took a lot of time, when we moved into a totally different direction, and then to come back to our main job of Apocalyptica the rock band.

Toppinen: We also did a tour with an orchestra, which was another project during our break, and everyone also wanted to have a chance for everyone to do different things at the time. [Mikko] was playing in a band, I made a record with another band. I also composed music for Wagner Reloaded, so it was very refreshing to do music with different concepts.

Sirén: It created a lot of new ideas. That was basically the reason behind [why we did] it.

So you’ve just been constantly busy the entire time, just not with Apocalyptica.

Toppinen: Basically, yeah

Sirén: Yeah, when we tour, we can keep ourselves really busy.

Toppinen: I also built a house on the break.

Sirén: And I did some music for theatre. But that’s just how musicians go, we like to do music everyday and keep busy. It’s such a strong influence in our lives, so there’s just so much creativity happening, in a good way. So if you’re always there, then you don’t see anything else. So when you let go, suddenly you can see the world and you can bring that back into the picture again.

Toppinen: It would have been very easy in a way, just to say “let’s make another record, you know, just replay what we’ve done in previous albums”, but that would be crucial for the band’s future, as you’d lose the motivation if the music doesn’t come from the excitement of making music. That’s the basic core, you know, that keeps us together, on the road and playing shows, and that we have the passion to make new and fresh music.

In 2011, you used Pledgemusic to fund a photo book project and gave pledgers an exclusive song (ìSoloTuî). Since then, bands from every genre have used indiegogo and kickstarter to fund their releases. What are the advantages to crowdfunding over a record label? What are the dangers of crowdfunding?

Sirén: I think it’s great. People need to realize that whole structure has changed. What existed in the market 10 years ago doesn’t exist anymore, where the record labels were the ones who released the albums which they sold to people, that doesn’t exist anymore, so to come up with all these new kind of ideas it’s great because it gives opportunities to smaller bands especially, to put their music out there a lot better. I see it only as a good thing. It’s not like this is theultimate way to [release] albums- this is just one step, and it’s developing. People need to be open to all kinds of new sources and ways to get music out there.

Toppinen: I think it’s great as it gives independence to artists. That’s why we used it. We’ve always done records where we own the master, so we do it ourselves and basically finance it with our own money, which sometimes doesn’t exist. It’s a great way to be independent and not to go to record companies, as then they start to push your style and take some of your independence out as they are the ones financing it, so it’s better when it’s the fans helping to finance it as they are the people who want to see the [finished product].

Would you say it’s sort of like going back to earlier on in music where bands and musicians would take a more DIY approach to things like recording music to cassettes, etc., but in the digital age?

Sirén: Like in the punk scene- it used to work like that, exactly what you said. I think in many ways, people tend to see this as a catastrophic “end of music” time, as the industry is struggling at the moment, but on the other hand, it gives opportunities to new ways.

Toppinen: It’s not so much about a few people who decide what kind of music gets released. Not a few, but like it’s always the gateholders and those in the record industry who decide which bands get signed.

Sirén: And what bands they show on tv. Like Viacom, they own MTV, and MTV dictates single-handedly which videos they show. It was totally their call, and they define what videos need to fill this criteria- like a kind of quality control.

Toppinen: Now it’s all about MTV. If you wanted to break into the music scene, you have to break into MTV. It’s basically one media that controls what is good.

Sirén: And they don’t pay bands anything.

Toppinen: Yeah, they don’t pay bands, and they’re rich as hell.

Sirén: So for us to use these systems that pay poorly, it’s still exposure, but they don’t control it, because they’re just a channel.

It’s a shame because some fans might not realize that, like they’d support MTV and everything, but they don’t realize what’s happening in the background.

Sirén: Yeah. I mean MTV is great fun, but it’s not to be seen as “oh, back in the day everything was so glorious and now it’s so dark” like that.

You do these massive, globe-spanning tours for each album. Which countries have been the most eye-opening experiences to visit? Which ones stand out the most in regards to fans, venues, etc?

Sirén: It’s impossible to say. We are lucky to be able to tour so much- I think on the last tour, we were able to [tour] 50 or 60 countries even, and this tour will cover almost the same amount, so it’s amazing even just to get to see that our music is known in so many places around the world.

Toppinen: For me it’s honestly hard to put one above the other. It’s impossible to say.

Sirén: To get to meet [fans]- that’s always the best part, when you get to meet the people, as it’s not always possible to meet face to face with loads of people, but to feel the enthusiasm and honesty between the band and the audience-that’s really the best thing, no matter where you are.

Toppinen: (On touring new countries) They stand out more in your memories, as nowadays, when we go to a new country, it’s always a really excellent country to go to anyways, so it’s very nice. Like we played in China, we played in Taiwan on the last tour, and places like Guatemala, El Salvador, Lebanon. It’s really great.

Sirén: [Every night] every audience has different qualities.

Toppinen: But as we said, we’re lucky bastards as we have great fan reactions everywhere.

If you could go back in time and give your younger self a piece of advice when you were just starting out, what would you say?

Sirén: “Don’t change a thing”- otherwise we wouldn’t be here!

This is the second album you’ve done an exclusive vinyl release for. Why do you think vinyl has made such a comeback over the last few years?

Toppinen: To be honest, we have had a vinyl on every Apocalyptica release.

Mikko: But even more so, it shows that we feel that it’s important. It’s a real thing, and I think like, all these formats in between like CDs- it’s not a real thing. Vinyl is a real thing, like it’s audio, it’s actually a physical thing. CDs are just a tool to transfer things. It’s like bits- it’s ones and zeros. Vinyl is the real thing. And artwork, everything, it just blossoms over there. And of course, well I think we are people at that age where we still feel an emotional connection to our past where we find it to be romantic. Youngsters- now they don’t have that kind of approach, but [they find it] interesting. It’s almost like a gadget.

Toppinen: And it’s a totally different sound. And we love the sound of vinyl. We’ve released all of our albums on vinyl. We’ve always felt that in our fanbase, there’s always enough people who are interested about vinyls, even when it was not hip, you know. Even in the nineties, when vinyl was totally wiped out, we still felt that it’s a cool thing to have.

Yeah. I mean for me personally, with vinyl, I see it as somewhat of a collectible as well. So yeah, it seems personable as you can bring it to concerts, get it signed when you meet the band, etc.

Toppinen: Yeah it’s a cool thing. And if you really want to sit down and listen to music, there’s vinyl. We actually listened to a lot of vinyls when we were making Shadowmaker. Whenever we had a lunch break, the producer would have a vinyl player and a lot of vinyl. He’d always put something on, like King Diamond or Mercyful Fate records, or Metallica-whatever, you know.

Word association: You’ve collaborated with so many artists over the years.

Choose a few words to describe your favourite thing about working with:

– Dave Lombardo

Toppinen: David is actually our first drummer for Apocalyptica, and the way he makes music is just pure joy- it’s always exciting. That’s what I really love about his playing. It’s exciting. You don’t know what’s going to happen, and his approach is just so [big]- he just goes for it, it’s crazy.

Sirén: He’s so inspiring and a creative person, and he fires up the room when he comes in. He just makes everybody happy, everybody enthusiastic.

– Gavin Rossdale

Toppinen: Gavin Rossdale- we have a long history with him. That’s why we made up our minds when we had the “End Of Me” song. We made a remix for Bush in- I think it was 1998, and there was this song called “Letting The Cables Sleep” as a single, and we made a remix of that, so we’re familiar with him from a long time ago. I think he has his very own style of singing and a very unique voice. He’s a really nice guy.

– Corey Taylor

Sirén: In my opinion, maybe the best rock singer there is right now. He’s a super, super good musician, and he throws himself in 110 per cent in whatever he does, so, hats off and everything- clothes off for that matter. He’s amazing.

– Max Cavalera

Toppinen: He’s a lovely guy. When we were at Soundwave in Australia, Max was there with Killer Be Killed. We’ve hungout a lot. It was one of those strange moments for me personally, because he was on tour when we were doing the song “Repressed”, and I flew into Munich and went into the studio with him, and he was there singing and asking me, like “what should I do? How should I do it?” and I was like, this is so fucking strange that I am producing for one of my biggest idols from when I was a teenager. We became very good friends with Max.

– Adam Gontier 

Sirén: Oh he’s great. He’s one of those people we didn’t personally know too well when we did the collaboration, but then we became great friends ever since. Then we did the radio lives, and the video. And when we play in Toronto, we’d just give him a call and ask “would you like to come to sing the song?” and he’s always up for it. He’s a super nice guy.

Toppinen: And he’s very professional. He’s really able to nail it every time.

Sirén: His input for “I Don’t Care” is one of the reasons why it became so big. His voice is super good.

– Tomoyasu Hotei

Sirén: He’s also one of the artists that we hadn’t met before the collaboration, and we got to know him afterwards, and we spent a wonderful day in Tokyo, and he invited us to his place and took us around in Tokyo to a private club, and to see the city from his perspective, and he’s a really great guitar player. He’s a music lover, and it’s amazing. That’s kind of the thing about being in a band- we get to meet so many amazing people.